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Angie:Hello, Alameda. This is Angie Watson-Hajjem from the Island City Beat podcast. The upcoming show is part two of my interview with trans activist, artist, parent, Theo Hopestil. So I know a lot of transgender people use pronouns them and they. And I Yeah.
Angie:I have such a hard time trying to wrap my mind around that. So tell me a little bit about that and and and why the use of those pronouns and what does that all mean? Yeah.
Theo:So first off, transgender was just reasoned as an umbrella term, and that just means someone who doesn't identify with whatever they were assigned at birth. And the gender you were assigned at birth, again, may or may not be scientifically accurate to your body, to your hormones, to your chromosomes because doctors just sort of they look at your outer genitalia, and that's it. And then they make a decision based on that. So among trans people, there are people who identify as trans men or trans women, and these are men and women. Some of them, it's a big goal to pass as male or female.
Theo:Some of them are a little less concerned with that. Some use, only masculine or only feminine pronouns. Some will use like he and they or she and they, and I think we can probably all at home think about, you know, various celebrities we know who do that. Some of us only use gender neutral pronouns. So what I'm gonna do is give, like, just sort of a quick mnemonic that I think can help people if they're trying to use they and them.
Theo:And I'm gonna kinda talk about linguistically why they and them are the predominant pronouns, and then, we're gonna just sort of touch on neopronouns a little so people will know what they are, especially being here in Alameda. We do, encounter more of that because we have more queer community happening. And and then just a little quick primer on neutral terms and shifting to using neutral terms. So, they and them is, these these are pronouns that in English we have used to in in the singular as a singular pronoun, since the well, the earliest written record of they and them as a singular pronoun dates back to 1375. And the sentence that it was a a lovely little romance about a man and a woman who weren't supposed to love each other and they had a friend who was a werewolf who was sneaking them food in the forest and people were looking for them and then all of a sudden, these people who are looking for these star crossed lovers, it says, each man hurried till they drew near.
Theo:And each man is being referred to as they. So on a linguistic grammatical level, that is a use of the singular they. And it sort of expresses how we tend to so this was probably this was happening before 1375. That's why we talk about earliest written record. We always know it's been happening before it got written down.
Theo:In this day and age, we use it in a really similar way. So if this was a lecture, we might start it with, if anyone has any questions, they could hold them for the end. Or if anyone needs to use a restroom, they can just get up and do that. Yes. No problem because we're informal, something like If a friend of mine came to me for advice about how to cook a perfect souffle, I might tell them that we all do it including I
Angie:didn't think about it. Without thinking.
Theo:People will insist to your face that they and them is only a plural pronoun, you know, not singular. And then they will literally use they as a singular pronoun like in the same breath. And it's it's wild because in language, we don't tend to think about what we're doing when it's our language. Like, speak several languages. I definitely am better at analyzing what I'm doing in the languages I've learned since, you know, since I hit 13 or something and I first started learning other languages than I am in English.
Theo:And I only started really thinking more about how I speak English when I was in my early twenties and I was studying applied linguistics specifically. Like, you you just don't think about it. You don't you don't you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. But we do it.
Theo:So the mnemonic I give people to make it simple because that was a lot of linguistic mumbo jumbo I just said that you don't need to worry about if you're not interested. The mnemonic is you are not switching from they plural to they singular. Oh. You are switching from they singular unknown or hypothetical to they singular known and specific. Mhmm.
Theo:If that makes sense. I'm not switching from they meaning those guys
Angie:Yeah.
Theo:To they meaning this person. I'm switching from they meaning that hypothetical person to they meaning this specific person I know.
Angie:Yes. Okay.
Theo:And usually, the reason I love that mnemonic is because usually when I give people that mnemonic, I see a light bulb go off. Yeah. So I use it a lot. Just just out and about in the world Mhmm. People will ask you questions once they find out once someone finds out you're a they and them, they're like, okay.
Theo:So is it they is or they are? And I'm like, I say they is a lot, but I also say they are, so have fun, you know. Don't don't worry about it. So just a quick touch on neo pronouns so people will know what they're hearing when they hear something that isn't they and them. First off, don't panic when you hear it.
Theo:It's okay to say, can you just break those down for me so I know I'm saying the right thing. Is that okay? Mhmm. Or it's also okay if you really wanna be an ally and not make your trans friend do all the work. Be like, can you say your pronoun again?
Theo:And just write it down, note it in your phone, and go look it up online. But neopronouns are just as saying neo, meaning new. And what happened is it's sort of since, I don't know, the sixties or so, people have played around with trying to invent new pronouns to be a singular nonbinary pronoun. That oftentimes doesn't work and oftentimes doesn't last. Not because of pronouns, but because just linguistically, when people sit down and say, we're gonna invent a word, it usually doesn't last.
Theo:In language, what happens is language change sort of happens naturally because people are communicating. They're communicating about something specific, it's almost like a hive mind deal. It's really fun to watch. I do have a background in studying sign language linguistics, for instance, and when you see new deaf communities forming, you actually get to see new language forming in ways that we kinda don't oftentimes in spoken language. So for me, I tend to see it through that view and that lens is like, when we need a word new word, the word is sort of created by all of us talking to each other.
Angie:Kinda kinda happens organically. Yes.
Theo:But some things that people might hear a lot is instead of so I was instead of me saying I, my, or they, them, their, you might hear something like z here, here, which is difficult, and I think that one kinda, like, has sort of we see it less because the here is a little weird to say when everyone instead of saying him or her, they just have to say here like that. It doesn't work that well phonetically. So a lot of people switch to, like, which is a little easier, or I've even seen a m ir, or something like fae and fair, which has sort of been on the rise a little, which is interesting. Some of the fun This is
Angie:all new to me. This is just a whole new language.
Theo:It sounds really different. But I have to say even as a queer person with lots of queer friends, at this point, it feels odd. Like, we don't really encounter it as much. They and them is really the one that is everywhere. So I do tell people if you're worried, make sure you're really good with they and them pronouns.
Theo:Yes.
Angie:And then
Theo:if you encounter someone using something else, practice.
Angie:Mhmm.
Theo:You know? Mhmm. Even some really young people, like, I'm an older millennial, some of the younger, the Gen Z generation have been experimenting with using it and its. Oh. Which is and I know I said experimenting.
Theo:Be careful with that language, I guess, because, you know, people will try to say we're just experimenting. But, yeah, that one, I I can't handle it, like, because, people would call us it if, you know, someone was androgynous. And so for me, it's a really violent term.
Angie:Mhmm.
Theo:Kind of like how I I'm really happy saying queer, but there are people 20 and 30 years older than me who are really unhappy with saying Mhmm. And and I mean, I grew up with people playing smear the queer on the playground, but I think for me, reclaiming it was easy, but not everyone can. So we're seeing it and it's sort of being reclaimed. But it's like, it's very rare. It's a lot more rare, and you tend to see it more when you're in, like, really open communities, art artistic communities with a lot of queer people in them, stuff like that.
Theo:It's good to know that they exist. Yeah. Just on a fun linguistics level, I like to also, mention co and purr because those were, like, tried, I think in more academic settings, I feel. Co, like a coed or per, like short for person. Uh-huh.
Theo:But I've never met anyone who uses those. I'm sure some people do, maybe not.
Angie:Maybe in the future you would
Theo:I think that's sort the fun thing about neopronouns, they really, they really represent this experimental thing. I've seen young kids online writing stories where they experiment with someone using, you know, pronouns in their stories and their pronouns will be like sun and moon and stuff, like actual, you know, actual nouns. Uh-huh. And I think it's good to, what I try to encourage people is I get that that can feel confusing, maybe even a little scary, but like just see it as something kind of fun that people are doing because when we're really, really challenging how our society has viewed gender for a long time, like it's okay if things just get really shook up and a little weird and wild and it's a little, like, chaotic for a bit.
Angie:And also here you're saying that Mhmm. It's okay to ask questions. Yeah. And it's okay that you're gonna make it wrong a few times. Yeah.
Angie:But just Yeah.
Theo:Being humble and just ask the question is kinda pull your phone out and be like, could you repeat that? Mhmm. Could you spell it? Make sure you spell it right and just like type it, like just literally open up your like web browser on your phone and you you hear one like, maybe you've never heard fae and fair before as pronouns and just make sure you spelled it right and just write that fae pronoun. Click your search button on your phone and then, you'll have that there when you get home later and it's already there.
Theo:Because that way it's okay to ask but you're not you're not asking your trans friend to do a ton of work Mhmm. For you because right now it's very exhausting to be trans. You know, we're we're in a lot of real danger. We're very early into an administration and our ability to get passports is being challenged at the same time as our existence has just been written out of law by the president. So they're saying we're about to oppress you and we're making it harder for you to leave.
Angie:Yeah. I mean It's really really some scary times we're having. Yeah. So we don't need to
Theo:do all the work.
Angie:But, yeah,
Theo:after you ask a little question, but then do a little search for yourself.
Angie:Own. Do the work on into your own homework. So, Theo, we've we've we've talked so much about so many things, and then there's so so many so many more things I wanna talk about, but do have in our conversation. But I do want to ask before we say goodbye a little bit about your your artwork that you do in the world. Yeah.
Theo:Yeah. It's funny you say that because I know, you and I met because I was in on a a Zoom with with one of the organizations you're involved in. We were talking about pronouns. Since then, I've done two different little small groups with that and every time I think we're gonna talk about pronouns and then people are always like, tell me your story. Then I'm like, I'm gonna try to tell it in as efficient a way I can so that we can talk more about pronouns and and gender neutral language and you know, what to say and what not to say, what questions you don't ask, good transfer, all this stuff and then we never, it's so hard to get there because then people ask so many questions about the personal part of it.
Theo:I think I'm learning a lot this year from becoming whatever is happening in the community where people keep asking me to
Angie:tell them about this stuff this year or so.
Theo:But yeah, it is really interesting and I really enjoyed all your questions and your curiosity, so thank you for having me. And yeah, as an artist, so yeah, I'm a visual artist. I work with, I do watercolors and I also do, colored pencils, and I do a lot
Theo:of fiber arts. I do embroidery. I do, like, mixed media, embroidery and a lot of, abstract and abstracted embroidery usually around, most of it's around themes of of, like, nature and the natural world, sometimes dealing with issues about, like,
Theo:you know, pollution, stuff like that. I've done some self portraits. I've done a number of self portraits with mixed medium embroidery all of my hands because that's the part of you that you see.
Angie:Mhmm.
Theo:I do not look at my face much, and I see my body at times, but, I feel like you see your hands all the time. So, a lot of healing art and stuff like that. I have also done art gatherings at a time I was leading the weekly art gathering during, shelter in place, that was, sponsored by the, Buenavess United Methodist Church where we were doing, like, a lot of meditative art and a lot of different art. So, like, different art techniques to just sort of, learn how to look at the world differently even. And, when I do that, I try to, gear every prompt to be like, you could do this with any media.
Theo:Know? I had a person who was a poet, so I was like, I was gearing the prompts so you could do it with, like, really anything. So that's all been very fun. And, currently, I am actually, teaching in Alameda through a couple of our, of our small businesses here in Alameda, One of which is, Bead Inspirations, which is, it's a bead shop that, enjoy bead enjoy making Exactly. Yeah.
Theo:Yeah. And, just last year, just late last year, celebrated their twentieth anniversary. Oh, twenty years. Founded here, continuing here, going strong. It's a great location.
Theo:They're on Park Street in Alameda. And, I teach, some of the some of our classes for different jewelry making techniques, including, like Cool. Knotting, braiding, basic techniques, wire wrapping, stuff like that. We have a lot of really cool our our teachers are all really good, and it's a really, really cool spot. And I'm currently, I've been speaking to the owner of the sewing room, which is also on Park Street, which is a really neat small it's a small business as well.
Theo:And what they have is they have a room with a bunch of sewing machines, so people who don't have one can come and work. They do a lot of classes on different sewing techniques, and they have one embroidery teacher. And since I do a lot of different styles, I'm actually coming in as a second. I recently had a really great conversation with the owner of the sewing room, and so we're gonna have the two of us because we actually, like, fit well together because we do different techniques. So I'll be doing stuff like, what do you do with your destash and your what do you do with found objects?
Theo:I incorporate found objects in my work. So and, the sewing room is also a really, really great place. I think she said they've been there I don't know. I can't remember if it's thirteen or fifteen years. Mean, sewing room's been been around for a while as well.
Theo:The owner's really neat. People learn all sorts of cool techniques, making their own clothing, all sorts of things like that. So, you know, one thing that I think is really special about Alameda is that we have these small businesses. Yeah. So I'm I'm grateful to plug them a little because
Angie:I'm glad you are.
Theo:You know, we need people to know about them Yeah. And to frequent them, and, you know, you can learn really neat techniques there. You can meet people who can help you fix stuff that you can't do. We have people come in to be inspirations, for instance, who just need a repair. I do a lot of repairs over there, helping people keep their heirlooms in good shape.
Theo:Stuff like that. We have a few people who come to the bead shop who actually, like, find vintage and even antique pieces at our local, estate sales and then, you know
Theo:Make jewelry out of it. Well well, they're already jewelry, so the idea is how to preserve them Oh. So that we can pass them on to further generations. Yeah. And I think it's something that having these businesses is something that makes Alameda very strong, and having that artistic presence is something that makes Alameda really strong.
Theo:So
Angie:Yeah. Well, Theo, thank you so much. Like I said, it's just been so wonderful talking to you. I I had so many more questions I wanted to ask you. Thank you so much.
Theo:Yeah. Could. And in the meantime, you know, if it's I know it can feel daunting, but it's not that hard to do your own research in the end. Like, what I tell people is you go online and you just Google, like, queer magazine or queer YouTuber or something like that. LGBTQ LGBTQ YouTuber, LGBTQ activist.
Theo:Mhmm. And and you'll start finding and then just make sure you're listening to what queer people and trans people are saying about themself. And that goes for anything. You just fill in the blank. If you're worried about these mass deportations, which we all are, you know, go online and, be like immigration activist or immigrant on YouTube, something like that.
Theo:And and find people from the community you wanna support or learn more about so you can be a better ally. Just put that name right in there and be like, look for those people. I do recommend YouTube a lot and also social media to get you started because yeah, you'll get people for myself. I was able to figure out that I wasn't just autistic but that I was an autistic ADHD er by watching YouTubes with autistic people. Once I started realizing my whole life makes sense if I've been autistic this whole time, you know?
Theo:And then I found people who are autistic ADHDers and have that dual diagnosis and I was like, that's my life right there, you know? And that's a good way to learn. That way, you know Yeah. You don't have to ask someone like me who, you know a lot of us trans people right now are are really bogged down with, like, governmental paperwork, making sure that, you know, people aren't being able to get their passports with the right gender. And so now your passport, the gender on your passport doesn't match the gender on your birth certificate because you've transitioned on your birth certificate, stuff like that.
Theo:My own son, his birth certificate still has my dead name on it, which is not my current legal name because he was born in Texas, and we're struggling with that. And and it becomes it's very frightening because a little bit that's makes it easier for them to take your son away. It makes them easier to not let you leave. People are trying, especially parents are trying to make it possible for their trans kids to leave the country because this what we're looking at and what I'm seeing happen, it's it's no different from Germany in the '19 Yeah. Just this world's happening.
Angie:Yeah. It's just unbelievable that we're living in it
Theo:great to be here, but also, like, for those at home listening to this, you know, do your trans friends a favor and and just Google some stuff. Look for look for people like me who are online already kind of doing some of the education. Yeah. And and just make sure you put that in in the search bar, like trans activist, trans magazine, trans whatever, so that so that you know you're getting good information. Yeah.
Angie:Yeah. Great. Theo, thank you. It's been a pleasure. It really has. Thank you. Please join us for our next podcast where I'll be interviewing Sophia DeWitt from an East Bay Housing Organization. She'll talk about how her agency helps people who are homeless as well as affordable housing month next on the Island City Beat podcast.