Hello, Alameda. This is the Island City Beat. And I'm Laura Thomas, your host for this segment. We're talking to Oliver Ma this week. He's a civil rights lawyer who's running for lieutenant governor.
Laura Thomas:He'll be on the June ballot in a field of 16 candidates, of which the top two vote getters will advance to the November election. Oliver, Island City Beat met you last month at the home of Austin and Judy Tam here in Alameda. And I think you came to Alameda at the behest of Cynthia Bonta, the mother of our attorney general Rob Bonta and a longtime activist for Filipino immigrants who began her work down in Tehachapi, not far from where you're living at the moment.
Oliver Ma:That's right. It's a short thirty minute drive, thirty, forty minutes.
Laura Thomas:We actually drove through Tehachapi a few weeks ago. Can you start by telling us what your work is like down in Bakersfield?
Oliver Ma:Yes. So until recently, I worked as a civil rights lawyer at the ACLU of Southern California based out of Bakersfield. And I focused specifically on immigrant rights, defending immigrant families. And it was a very meaningful job for me because I'm an immigrant, my family are all immigrants. And so I got to work on many of the issues that my family faced growing up.
Oliver Ma:The highlight of which, I mean there's many highlights, but last year, the very first immigration raid in the entire country was in Kern County, and border patrol came through in January and rounded up hundreds of farm workers. And my team and I were able to sue and stop these raids. In April, we got an injunction that is still in effect today that protects about 10,000,000 people in the Central Valley in Eastern California from further illegal immigration raids.
Laura Thomas:So is it so ICE has stopped the raids as a result of this?
Oliver Ma:ICE has, for the most part, stopped indiscriminate raids where they see people based on things like just skin color. ICE is still arresting people in the Central Valley, but for them to not violate the court order, they have to do it in a way that is allowed by the constitution, which means either they need to have a warrant or they need to have reasonable suspicion.
Laura Thomas:Okay. You know, we saw a video of you being pushed around by some law enforcement people a few weeks ago.
Oliver Ma:Oh, you saw
Laura Thomas:Could you give us a little bit more back? What was happening that day and what were you?
Oliver Ma:So I was at the No Kings protest in LA. And after the protest, a lot of folks gathered in the front of the ice processing center in Downtown Los Angeles. And it was my first time there actually. And when we were standing there, we could hear people shouting from inside. I couldn't tell if it was shouting to get our attention or they were just shouting, but it sounded like people were screaming.
Oliver Ma:It sounded like there were children inside, and we know there's children inside. So just an awful, awful situation. And then the police comes. Also, I also saw someone who was just a college student, 19 years old college student, doing nothing but filming with a camera. And ice thugs shot him right in the eye with a rubber bullet.
Oliver Ma:And so now he's blind in that eye.
Laura Thomas:gracious.
Oliver Ma:And so just the the most brutal behavior. And then LAPD comes by, and instead of protecting the people of Los Angeles as they were supposed to do, they turn on the people of Los Angeles. And that day, they I saw them harassing someone who was unhoused in a tent. They beat a boy, 19 years old, beat him until his femur broke with batons.
Laura Thomas:Oh my god.
Oliver Ma:Just awful, awful. And so, I was there telling them as an attorney, I feel like I have a duty to be there, to observe what's happening and to protect people. I was there and was telling them what they're doing is wrong, and they didn't like hearing it. So they pushed me around. They tried to push me down a flight of stairs and pushed me around, hit me with their batons.
Oliver Ma:I still have a bruise from where they hit me. And I think it just goes to show that these law enforcements so often of the time I mean, they take up more than half of the city of LA's budget, but so much of the time instead of protecting the people of Los Angeles, they're colluding with ICE and colluding with Trump.
Laura Thomas:Right. Right. So you said you you're an immigrant. Can you tell us a bit of that story? Story about your grandmother and
Oliver Ma:Yeah. Definitely.
Laura Thomas:And two.
Oliver Ma:So I was born in Beijing. My family and I moved to The US when I was seven. And parents didn't speak really any English, and they still don't. And so I grew up doing a lot of advocacy for them. And the most severe of which was when I was in middle school, my grandma was walking just a few blocks away from my school when federal agents saw her, profiled her, and just took her.
Oliver Ma:And she had a visa, so she had documents to be in this country, but they could not communicate with her because she doesn't speak any English. And so they just assumed and they took her. And so for about a week, I was the one who was filling up the forms, making phone calls, and trying to get her liberty back. And eventually she was free, but that was a really formative experience and one of the reasons I ended up going to law school.
Laura Thomas:Wow. Good for you. Well, we're activists ourselves at the Island City Beat. And when we saw you, whenever that was at the TAM's house, we were impressed with how you asked your audience to tell you what their issues were and how you were ready to give your position on a broad range of social justice issues. And the one that I like the best, of course, is housing.
Laura Thomas:So I'm wondering, what do you think about tackling the high cost of housing now in California?
Oliver Ma:So the lieutenant governor chairs our state commission on economic development. So it would be my job to advise the governor and the legislature on how California's economy can grow better. And for me, housing is at the center of that because too many people are spending way too much on housing. And there's three things I think we really need to do. Number one, I think we do need to build more housing.
Oliver Ma:But it cannot be just the housing that the real estate developer want to build.
Laura Thomas:right
Oliver Ma:they're just gonna build a bunch of luxury condos that end up taking up the space of four affordable housing units, and that's gonna decrease the supply of housing we have. We need to build about a million new affordable homes. That's number one. Number two, we need to protect tenants better. I worked for two years in eviction defense representing people against their slumlords, and yeah, I think tenants often they don't have an attorney.
Oliver Ma:They are it's it's so rarely a fair fight between them and their landlords. And so protecting tenants better. And then lastly, which is I think probably the most important bit, but that very few candidates are willing to talk about, is taking on the corporate landlords. Because these corporate landlords, they own hundreds of thousands of single family homes in California, entire neighborhoods. And young people and working people, we are always gonna get out competed by a billion dollar investment company when it comes to buying a home.
Oliver Ma:And so, you know, they're pumping billions of dollars into the housing market, increasing the cost of everything, buying up entire neighborhoods
Laura Thomas:Right.
Oliver Ma:And then charging people whatever they want on rent.
Laura Thomas:So I'm familiar with that issue and it does seem to me that there is kind of a false market in housing created by that. So I'm wondering how you would tackle that directly. And I'm also wondering, I mean, these are a light in my mind, maybe not in yours, but what about creating all affordable social housing in California?
Oliver Ma:Yeah. Yeah. So when it comes to corporate landlords, there's a bill in the California state legislature that would limit corporations to a thousand homes. I think a thousand is so a lot of homes, especially because having sued some of these landlords, I know how easy it is for them to just register another LLC and then buy a thousand more. And so I think that limit needs to be a lot lower.
Oliver Ma:For me, probably one or two should be the limit. Corporations, I think homes should be for regular people to live in and not for companies to invest in. And I I am a huge huge advocate for social housing, a huge supporter. I grew up in public housing.
Laura Thomas:Mhmm.
Oliver Ma:So when I was living in Beijing, the same grandma that was harassed by ICE agents, she had always worked as a school teacher. And so I grew up in her apartment, which was on the 23rd Floor of this apartment, this modern apartment building in the middle of Beijing, literally like we were in the middle of the city. She was able to get this brand new apartment building for free for working as a public school teacher. And that allowed her to retire with dignity. And I think our public school teachers, I think working people of California, I think old people of California deserve affordable homes.
Oliver Ma:And things like as important as housing should not only be made available because some company can profit from the exploitation of that thing. And so I think the government should come and invest in public housing and social housing that are for regular people instead of for these corporate landlords.
Laura Thomas:Yeah. The idea of, government investment in housing is, you know, a difficult one here. Of course, it happens in just a few other places in the world. Of course, Vienna, I mean, Singapore, obviously in China. Another related issue having to do with housing and finances that you did mention changing Prop 13 rules so property owned by major businesses could not be frozen at the nineteen seventy levels. Which is one way to, you know, raise more revenue if they were paying higher taxes. Right? Because they've owned some of this property forever, right?
Oliver Ma:Right. They should pay what regular people are paying.
Laura Thomas:Exactly. But I'm also wondering what other ways the very wealthy in the state could be prevailed upon to pay for the needed social infrastructure that we need.
Oliver Ma:Yeah. I think I support the billionaire's tax and I think billionaires as a whole need to pay their fair share. There's a reason California has more billionaires than every other state even though we already have a pretty high tax tax rate for regular people and for billionaires. Billionaires are not popping up out of Oklahoma or Alabama or Nevada with 0% income tax, And the reason they're not popping up is because those states do not have dynamic economies. California has a dynamic economy.
Oliver Ma:We are the center of tech innovation. We are the center of cultural innovation. And the reason we have a dynamic economy is because we've invested in our people. We've invested in public education. The UCs were affordable for so long, so much of California's history.
Oliver Ma:Our health care system was for a long time very good until they were not good. And so I think getting the billionaires to pay their fair share so that our economy remains dynamic is the best best path forward for California.
Laura Thomas:Okay. Your campaign is going to be grassroots. That means only small donations, lots of on the ground volunteers, and you're also democratic socialist.
Oliver Ma:I sure am.
Laura Thomas:Which is a dynamic place to be in this era and a real challenge. So how is that gonna work?
Oliver Ma:Well, I wouldn't say it's a challenge. I think young people are much more open to the idea. I also think that is how we're going to really bring a lot of good change to our country. You know, when it comes to why we have Trump again, I think everyone has their own theories. My theory is there are so many people who feel left behind by our economy, and they are looking for transformative change.
Oliver Ma:And right now, the Democratic Party is is the is the party of the establishment. It is the party of our current economy. It is in many ways the party of corporations. And so for those people, both Bernie and Trump seem like an alternative. And I think for the Democratic party to win again, we need to get corporate money out of our politics.
Oliver Ma:We need to be a party of grassroots change, of people power, and we need to be a party that promises transformative, inspirational change, especially when it comes to our economy, and that's the only way we will be able to beat Trump and fascism.
Laura Thomas:Wow. I like the sound of that. So also, you're not you've done some really important pro Palestinian work. And, you know, here in Alameda, we couldn't even get a ceasefire resolution through our city council. So, there's a lot of fear out there, but you don't seem to be afraid.
Laura Thomas:Why is that?
Oliver Ma:I am afraid. I was just reflecting on this. Earlier this year, I was legal observing at a pro Palestine protest. There were about 20 protesters and then there were about 20 cops. All the cops had batons and they were heavily armed and armored, wearing all black.
Oliver Ma:You couldn't see their faces and I was the only person standing.
Laura Thomas:Where was this?
Oliver Ma:This was at Bakersfield.
Laura Thomas:Oh, yeah.
Oliver Ma:Yeah. So I and I was the only person standing between this small group of protesters and all these heavily armed cops, and my heart was racing. So I am afraid, but I think courage is not being not afraid, it's acting despite our fears, and that's what I try to do. And that's what we try to do with this campaign is to equip people with the knowledge and the rights and the tools to act despite all the oppression that is happening.
Oliver Ma:Speaking up for Palestine, it is scary. It has real consequences for people. But for me as an attorney who is a US citizen, it is the consequences are a lot less severe than compared to someone like Mahoum Khalil or all these other people who are being basically kidnapped for their pro Palestinian views. And also, it is so worthwhile and so meaningful to be able to speak about this issue because it is on the side of justice and because so few, people running for office are willing to speak about it that, when I speak about it, it gives me so much energy.
Laura Thomas:Good. Well, it does say it does seem like it could set you apart from some of the other candidates. Yes. I mean, I don't know who they are, but a lot of them are people I've never heard of, but I hadn't heard of you until Cynthia told me that.
Oliver Ma:Cynthia's very kind.
Laura Thomas:So but I wanted to ask you about other candidates a little bit later. I also wanted to talk about how you wanna shut down for profit prisons. So that's one of your first?
Oliver Ma:Beautiful. That's one of the, yeah, things I wanna fight for the most.
Laura Thomas:Really? Can you talk more about that?
Oliver Ma:Absolutely. So these for profit ICE prisons are so much of the reason these raids are happening. Because what happens is these prisons are run by for profit prison companies. They charge taxpayers billions of dollars every year, and then they donate to politicians to further expand these prisons to take more taxpayer money and to further brutalize immigrant families. And it's also horrible what they do to the people inside.
Oliver Ma:So many of the people inside have no criminal convictions, they have multiple US citizen kids, and they're being arrested solely because these for profit prison companies want to cash a check from tax payers. And the way the folks inside stay in touch with their kids is they make phone calls. And for each phone call, they get charged around $5, and the way they make that $5 to make that phone call is they work. And in every single one of these for profit prisons, for a full day of work, they get paid $1, and so people are working a full week to make one phone call with their kids, and that's not right. I think families belong together with their kids at home instead of in for profit ICE prisons.
Oliver Ma:Now how do we shut them down? California actually did pass a law to shut these prisons down in the first Trump administration, but the the law was struck down because federal law is supreme to California law. And so if the federal government wants to open these prisons, but California wants to shut them down, then they stay open. But there are other things California can do. One thing is the constitution has what's called the anti commandeering clause.
Laura Thomas:The anti what?
Oliver Ma:Anti commandeering Okay. Clause. It's a little Yeah. Legalese.
Oliver Ma:But what it means is when the federal government wants to do something in a state, they cannot force states to contribute to that federal purpose. So if the federal government, the famous case is federal government wanted to open up a nuclear power plant, I think in New York, in the state of New York, and they required the state to actually dispose of the nuclear waste.
Oliver Ma:the state sued, and the court said, yeah, you can't force New York to take on the expenses of this federal project. Same applies to California and these for profit prisons, which is if the federal government wants to keep these prisons open, they have a right to, but they cannot force California to contribute California's water, California's power, California's health care health care infrastructure. And if California turned off the water, turned off the power, turned off access to our health care infrastructure, these for profit prisons have to shut down.
Laura Thomas:That's true. They would. It's amazing how much federal policy and federal services have been outsourced to private companies over the last few decades. Think if many Americans don't realize it.
Oliver Ma:Yeah. Many of whom these private companies donate them to politicians.
Laura Thomas:Right. They do. They do. Exactly. So again, going on to one of the big issues in the state is health care and how how do you see a better healthcare system for the state of California?
Oliver Ma:So I support free universal healthcare. And the reason I support it is it saves the state money. And I have a tooth that is fake.
Laura Thomas:Right.
Oliver Ma:Can you tell which one?
Laura Thomas:Well, I remember because I was at the you did this
Oliver Ma:I did this
Laura Thomas:in the front.
Oliver Ma:I did this little sham. Yeah. It's one of the ones in the front and I lost it because to get it fixed in the beginning was gonna be 500, a bit more than $500 and I thought, you know, I'll just wait it out and see if the problem gets better by itself. I don't wanna spend that that money. And over the years, the problem kept on getting worse and worse and worse.
Oliver Ma:Eventually, I lost a tooth and losing the tooth cost thousands of dollars and took up hundreds of health care hours from our health care system. And if we had free universal health care, there would have been no reason for me to wait. I would have gotten it fixed right in the very beginning, saved myself money, saved our health care system money, saved our health care system a lot of time, and that's why we we need universal health care. And also what universal health care will get us is it will allow the state to negotiate against these big pharmaceutical companies. My grandma has diabetes, and insulin for her is 10 times more expensive here than it is in Mexico or Canada.
Oliver Ma:And that's because grandma is not a very powerful bargaining chip against a big pharmaceutical company.
Laura Thomas:Well, right. Because their profits are that's the way we run our system. The people profit is a motive and not
Oliver Ma:Not care.
Laura Thomas:Not care. Yeah. Exactly. Anyway.
Oliver Ma:But if the state of California negotiated against these big pharmaceutical companies over the price of insulin, the state of California has a much more powerful bargaining position than my grandma.
Laura Thomas:Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I wanted to ask you, have you if I imagine you must be following the race for governor.
Oliver Ma:I am. Yes.
Laura Thomas:Do you have a candidate you support or would work feel good working with?
Oliver Ma:Oh, that is a difficult question. There are candidates that I like. There are candidates that I do not like.
Laura Thomas:Mhmm.
Oliver Ma:I think for me to endorse, it has to be a perfect fit.
Oliver Ma:And right now, there is no perfect fit.
Oliver Ma:But, you know, I wanna be transparent, and so I would not complain too much if we got Tom Steyer.
Laura Thomas:Mhmm.
Oliver Ma:I would I think I'll be okay with the governor Javier Becerra.
Oliver Ma:I also I'm okay with two candidates who are not Democrats, Butch Ware and Ramsey Robinson.
Laura Thomas:Really? Okay. Are they Republicans or independents?
Oliver Ma:One is a green candidate, and one is, Peace and Freedom Party.
Laura Thomas:Oh, okay. So they would probably line up with you on many issues.
Oliver Ma:Yes. But again, with all these candidates, it's not a perfect thing. Still there are differences.
Laura Thomas:Okay. So in your own race for lieutenant governor, it looks like the person with the most money I was checking is Michael Tubbs, the former mayor of Stockton.
Oliver Ma:I would think it's Fiona Ma.
Laura Thomas:Really? Well, she's got well, I'm just looking on an Internet report.
Laura Thomas:So they've reported that you've got maybe $300,000 in your kitty. So I don't know if that's accurate, but they reported that Michael Tubbs is, 4,000,000. So, and he introduced the program of guaranteed basic income for low income people. You probably know that.
Oliver Ma:Yes.
Laura Thomas:And I haven't been following him at all what he's what he's been doing recently. He was endorsed by the Chronicle, and I'm wondering how you see yourself in comparison to him. Are you more progressive, or what are the differences?
Oliver Ma:I I don't want to speak ill of any individual candidates
Laura Thomas:Mhmm.
Oliver Ma:Who are also running for this position. What I'll say is there are a few things that make me unique in this race.
Oliver Ma:Number one, I'm the only candidate who has spoken up for justice in Palestine.
Laura Thomas:Mhmm.
Oliver Ma:I think that is critical because so much of our tax dollars are being used to bomb children, and I think they should be invested here in California. If you can't speak up on this issue, on genocide, then you can be silent on any issue. And so that's very important for me to speak up on. I'm the only union member in the race. I am a grievance officer with my union.
Laura Thomas:What is your union?
Oliver Ma:The National Organization of Legal Service Workers, which is a part of the United Auto Workers.
Laura Thomas:Oh, okay. Never heard of that before. Do you does it cover so you're a civil rights lawyer, that's probably do you actually work for well, you work for the ACLU. Okay.
Oliver Ma:Yes. But my workplace is unionized.
Laura Thomas:Oh, Okay. I understand now. Alright.
Oliver Ma:So so as a grievance officer, I bring grievances and against management when they violate our collective bargaining agreement, when they discriminate, and things like that. And so I've seen and I also organize my members for things. And so I've seen why unions are so critical for making sure we are treated fairly and with dignity at work to make sure we are paid fairly. And I also see what it takes to advocate for unions, both on the legal side with grievances and on the organizing side. And unions are so critical, and I think I'm best positioned to advocate for unions.
Oliver Ma:I'm the only immigrant in the race. I think our immigrant community has been under so much attack under Trump, and I've fought for immigrants in the courtroom, on the streets, in detention centers. I think we deserve elected officials who can advocate vigorously for our immigrant communities. And then lastly, I think what makes us especially unique is I am not a career politician. I've always spent my career on the front lines fighting for people.
Oliver Ma:So when other candidates are holding corporate fundraisers, I am in an immigration detention center ..
Oliver Ma:.. trying to reunite a family. When other candidates are meeting with lobbyists, I am organizing a tenants union. And I think that experience of fighting on the front lines, advocating for people is what we need defending California against Trump, not somebody who has been in politics for ten years, for twenty years, who are part of the system.
Laura Thomas:Okay. But you're you are calling yourself a democratic socialist.
Oliver Ma:Yeah.
Laura Thomas:So you are going to take those sort of political stands?
Oliver Ma:Yes.
Laura Thomas:Okay.
Laura Thomas:And how do you feel? Is that gonna help you in this particular race?
Oliver Ma:I don't really think about whether it helps me or not. What's really important to me is being authentic to myself and my values. And I'm the you know, I always want to be the type of person where to decide what stance I take on something, I don't do any polling to see if it's popular. I don't ask consultants how I should talk about it. I just speak from my heart.
Oliver Ma:And I think that's the kind of elected officials we need are people like Bernie who are willing to fight for something because it is right even if it's unpopular. Democratic socialists, it's a term that is unpopular in some circles. It's a term that's popular in other circles. How that breaks down, I don't know. I haven't run polls, and frankly, I don't really care.
Oliver Ma:What I do care about is delivering in California where housing is cheap, where health care is free, and where immigrant families are safe, and that's what democratic socialism is about.
Laura Thomas:Okay. Good. Well, you this is, this has been a great interview. I think we've probably taken up enough of your time and, just one last question. How is your campaign going?
Oliver Ma:We're feeling really, really good. There is an aggregate of polls that we we check-in on to look at where our progress is, and right now we're third. So a little bit behind second.
Laura Thomas:Wow.
Oliver Ma:So we're feeling we're feeling good. What makes us feel especially good is the fact that the Democratic party declined to endorse anybody, and so that really makes the race pretty wide open. It will be the race with the most or the campaign with the most grassroots support that end up winning. And that's absolutely our campaign.
Laura Thomas:So how do people who are interested in supporting you get in touch or take part.
Oliver Ma:So we have close to 5,000 volunteers now with the campaign, which is more than any other candidate in this race has put together. And people can go to our website, oliverma2026.com, and you'll see a big volunteer button right at the top, and that's, you know, that's really the core of this campaign. To change these systems, to deliver a California that's affordable, where families are safe, where we're divested from genocide, all of these things, it's gonna take more than one candidate. It's gonna take more than one election. And the way we change these very entrenched systems is by long term grassroots organizing.
Oliver Ma:It's by telling stories. It's by elevating leaders. It's by organizing communities, and that's what our campaign is about. We have trained now close to 5,000 volunteers with the campaign, and we wanna train many more and build a system that's gonna keep on fighting for progressive power. We saw in New York City with Zohar Mamdani's victory that he trained a 100 a 100,000 volunteers in his race, and now these volunteers are helping other progressives.
Oliver Ma:They are volunteering at rapid response networks. They've really built a system where if you're a progressive running for office and you don't take corporate money, in New York City, you start two steps ahead instead of two steps behind. And here, we need to do that as well in California. And hopefully, with the California DSA and with my campaign, we take another step closer to building that system.
Laura Thomas:So you're saying you're building a you're building a movement?
Oliver Ma:We're contributing to movements that have been around for a long time.
Laura Thomas:Okay. Because this is you're talking now about the DSA or your own campaign?
Oliver Ma:About the DSA.
Laura Thomas:Okay. So you're you're so you're the people you're training are going to be remain involved in in some sort of activism or another? Yes. That's
Laura Thomas:right.
Laura Thomas:Well, I I commend you for that. And, I think we at Island City Beat are in line with that sort of thinking. We're trying to build solidarity in Alameda and we aren't part you know, we're not going to make endorsements ourselves but we're glad you came to Alameda and talked to us and We encourage our listeners to even check out the other candidates and see where they stand and how they compare and to take it seriously because actually, I'm thinking one more thing. As lieutenant governor, actually take part in the senate debate or you just come in to break a deadlock?
Oliver Ma:So I do come in to break a tie but I also am President of the State Senate where I can co sponsor legislation. Oh, And so I do have a lot of legislation I want to support.
Laura Thomas:So you will be an active member of the State Senate? Yes. Oh, okay. So you're like, so that I don't know how many members of the senate there are. So you're like somebody without an actual constituency but you're a member of the senate?
Oliver Ma:I'm a member, yes. I'm involved, through the legislative process.
Oliver Ma:I cannot vote but what I can do is co sponsor things.
Laura Thomas:Okay. Alright. Well, that that was Oliver Ma running for lieutenant governor in June, where if he's one of the top two, he'll go to November.
Oliver Ma:Yes.
Laura Thomas:There's a bit of a road ahead. But we wish you luck, and we thank our listeners for listening.
Oliver Ma:And I hope to come back to Alameda and your wonderful garden again.
Laura Thomas:Okay. Alright. We'll sign off now. Till next week. This is the Island City Beat with Laura Thomas.
Laura Thomas:Goodbye.
Oliver Ma:Bye.